Carte grise de collection (or is it???)

[bouncybili]

Hi again.

Regarding registration of my UK registered series 3....

After months and months of hassle finally passed a CT last week and got all the documents together for trip to the prefecture at Laval. Now, I had an 'ATTESTATION pour l'obtetion d'une carte grise "VEHICULE DE COLLECTION"' from the FFVE..... but when the CG arrived it has NO mention of this at all! From what I understand it should be there in section Z1.

So, is this a Carte Grise de Collection or not? And if not, have I got any hope of getting it corrected (without paying any more money)???

Help (before I lose my mind)!?!?!?

Bil.

[Aegedus]

Hello,

The historic vehicle status should be mentionned on the Z1 section as "VEHICULE DE COLLECTION". In my case, this is what is mentionned for my serie one declared as histocal vehicle using an homologation certificate from the FFVE.

If nothing is stipulated, you're really a lucky guy because your car is then considered as a normal vehicle !!

Aegedus.

[bouncybili]

Thanks.

I was wondering last whether or not it was a good thing to be "vehicule de collection"...

Pros:
1. CT every 5 years
2. Cheaper insurance (I think)

Cons:
Are there any? They're bound to change the rules at some point...

Something to ponder.

[francol]

Up to now, no 'cons', only a big 'pro' : MoT every five years instead of two.
If it was my motor, I would not ask MoT to correct classification and remain 'normal' ( but if you prefer to do so, anyway, there should be no extra charge as mistake is not yours).
Some people in France fear that, being 'collectibles', they could be banned from open roads one day, or at least very restricted as in Belgium or Germany as far as I have heard - but I believe that, if such decision is taken in the future (and, up to now, there is no clue) it will be on the grounds of manufacturing year irrespective of the status of vehicles. So...

[francol]

Oh, yes, another 'con' : when classified as 'collectible', you're no longer allowed to ferry people or goods as a trade (but allowed if done free)

[bouncybili]

Thanks. My insurance won't cover that anyway, but good point. In the UK we had MOT (CT) every year and actually I have no problem getting it tested more than every 5 years.... I like to know what's up with a 40 year old vehicle!

[pandarouge]

Rules changed recently (what a surprise talking about France) and, to my understanding, the former drawabacks have been reduced and make the 'old timer' Carte Grise less problematic. That's a point.

But... in addition of the above mentioned things, quite relevant, you also need to know that once your vehicle is registered as 'old timer' 'de collection' it will never get back to normal : it is a one way thing. For me, and I guess for many of us, it makes (sadly) all the difference. As said, the status is today fair and better than before... but what about tomorrow ? If they change back to more restrictiv rules for CG De Collection owners, for any reasons (green politics, etc) you will trapped with your nice 'carte grise de collection' and unable to return to normal, a thing that would permit you to be considered as 99% of the street road legal vehicles and avoid new rules. By doing that, you create your own discrimination which could be bad in the future. For us, all knowing how things work in France, we prefer staying in the main pot and keep normal... like a tree hidding itself in the forest.

Your choice is to take advantage today but it is a bet for the future !

Now, talking about advantages, today are the only two following:
-A cheaper insurance : I doubt on this one, check with insurer Clavel in Lyon having Club rebates, you could be surprised by his quotes.

-Not having to go through the MOT, which is getting tougher and tougher... on that old vehicles, having a bench test of breaks, steering and other important thing is not only a waste of time and money but is also a safe check. Today's cars are reliable... but old LR are not always and having this independent check is not always a bad idea. I quite often leave the MOT with a couples of good remarks that I should anyway correct for my own safety.

Maybe the only very good thing is that in case you buy a car without proper official documents (lost), going through the CG de Collection process and FFVE is sometimes the only way to have the car back on the road legally. That's a must do. Not your case, though.

So tell me what remains ?

Cheers,

[bouncybili]

... in addition of the above mentioned things, quite relevant, you also need to know that once your vehicle is registered as 'old timer' 'de collection' it will never get back to normal : it is a one way thing.

Very good point, I had forgotten that.

but old LR are not always and having this independent check is not always a bad idea. I quite often leave the MOT with a couples of good remarks that I should anyway correct for my own safety.

Mine failed its first CT on rear brake balance.... this turned out to be a leaking cylinder on the left and a stuck cylinder on the right (that promptly leaked once I freed it up).... so I was very glad of the test.

[pandarouge]

The CG de Collection is a nice thing, we all would be happy to have it. Or at least, we all should be happy to have it, like being a kind of recognition for owning and maintaining such old cars. But for stupid reasons, like so many things, we stay away from it... A last thing, maybe... for all these good or stupidly bad reasons, it is a fact that when you'll try to resell you car, it will also face the fact that MORE people like a normal CG than the 'De Collection' one. It does not impact the price of the car but make it easier or not to go (again... depends on the future, if it worsten the rules attach to it, it could then become a real disadvantage on reselling). Forget this point if your aim is to keep it forever which I hope you do.

Hope it helped !

[bouncybili]

Well I've had her for just under 10 years now and had no plans to get rid of her - though I have been sorely tempted recently, during all the grief of registration.....

But with any luck that feeling will soon pass and I'll keep her forever

[francol]

Anyway, don't worry chaps, we'll run out of petrol (I mean affordable one) soon so we won't drive very much any kind of car, 'normal' or 'collectible'

[Gull]

one point: with a normal CG, in case of accident, the vehicle could be declared as not refurbishable, and goes directly to trash can, CG is destroy too.
with collection CG, you avoid this point: a collection vehicle can be fully remade.

[Arjan]

Good Evening All,

I had my '62 / '63 Series registered and it went straight onto a "normal" Carte Gris - nobody mentioned the Carte de Collection option. Just aswell as I use her daily. Paperwork was fun but we got there, in the end.

Hope you don't mind me asking this :

As I run 4 Land / Range Rovers, (Series. 90, 110, Soft Dash) any suggestions to go to for insurance as Pasifica will not really do much in either discount or B/M.

Thanks.

[Aegedus]

Good Evening All,

I had my '62 / '63 Series registered and it went straight onto a "normal" Carte Gris - nobody mentioned the Carte de Collection option. Just aswell as I use her daily. Paperwork was fun but we got there, in the end.

You mean your series was registered in FRance as "vehicule de collection" and you ask for new "cartes grises" and you get some "normal" back ??!!

As I run 4 Land / Range Rovers, (Series. 90, 110, Soft Dash) any suggestions to go to for insurance as Pasifica will not really do much in either discount or B/M.

No idea. I 've got mine for only one serie at groupama for only few €€. But I don't remenber the price exactly. I will check.

Bye,
Aegedus

[pandarouge]

Good Evening All,

I had my '62 / '63 Series registered and it went straight onto a "normal" Carte Gris - nobody mentioned the Carte de Collection option. Just aswell as I use her daily. Paperwork was fun but we got there, in the end.

You mean your series was registered in FRance as "vehicule de collection" and you ask for new "cartes grises" and you get some "normal" back ??!!

As I run 4 Land / Range Rovers, (Series. 90, 110, Soft Dash) any suggestions to go to for insurance as Pasifica will not really do much in either discount or B/M.

No idea. I 've got mine for only one serie at groupama for only few €€. But I don't remenber the price exactly. I will check.

Bye,
Aegedus

The Club is in touch with 'assurances Clavel' in Lyon, France. I pay around 35EUR annual fee for the minimum legal cover, which is damage to others and related consequences. Which is, for our cars with low market value, more than ehough.

Hope it helps,
regards,
Antonin