Le Temps des Series'

Bonjour mon amis,

I should be grateful if anyone could provide some information on the legality of sideways facing seats in Land-Rovers in France. I have read reports that the rear sideways mounted seats in Station Wagons etc are not legal in France - is this correct? A while ago a Station Wagon was for sale which had its rear passenger seats removed as the owner used to use it for trips to France and he was advised they were not legal.

My SIII Station Wagon has 12 seats, 3 front - 2 with seatbelts, 3 middle row (no seatbelts) and 6 inwards facing ones in the rear (no seatbelts). I acquired my licence when an ordinary car licence allowed me to drive a vehicle with up to 16 seats, whereas someone passing their test now could only drive up to a 9 seat vehicle. Would my vehicle need a tachograph in France?

I would have thought that my vehicle being ok in England should be ok in France, but wonder if this is correct.

Any advice gratefully received.

Michael

Hi !

Sideways facing seats (I understand that you mean seats of which the occupants are facing each other) are illegal in most countries outside the UK, except for the military, police etc. This has to do with seatbelt efficiency.

Outside UK, you need a tachograph for all vehicles that are USED COMMERCIALLY. I think this does not apply to you.

Vehicles legal in UK are not necessarily legal outside UK (e.g. kit cars and similar contraptions). Check with authorities of country to visit (embassy) to be sure. Many UK citizens had very nasty surprises when involved in accidents outside UK because the cars they drove were not acceptable to continental standards.

Takeo.

PS: remember that the UK is only marginally part of the EC. Apart from not adopting the EC currency, the UK als rejected manymany EC rules and regulations...

Well, in France, even the police or the gendarmerie, is not quite clear when you phone them with such a question...

In France, we have a document attached to any vehicle, called 'la carte grise' (soon a pale blue document actually), saying precisely the number of seats fitted originally.
The common rule is that you can carry as much people, as written on your 'carte grise'...
(brand new 110 SW Defenders, for example are sold as 9 seaters)
but once checked, my insurance company told me that what was important is the number of passengers you declare to carry regularly or occasionally... on seats well fastened to the floor (i.e as they were by the factory...)
for example, my Landy is a 7 seaters station wagon (88') from switzerland, but had lost 4 places when registering for the first time in France... (mainly because the previous owner didn't bother... and let the vehicle regarded as a van version...). I've been told by the insurance send a formal letter to declare that i can 'occasionally' carry 7 persons.
That's the better way to be covered in case of accidents causing injuries.

Back to the police, i think that if you can produce a document showing :
- 12 seats
- your insurance company is OK !
- your driving licence
They won't bother to check the highway code in depths...

about seat belts :
the common rule is that you don't have to fasten them... if they were not provided with your vehicle... (pure logical)
BUT, if you've got some.... fasten them !

Which year is your ?

I can check the local police for you ! (always a great fun for me !!!)

Yes Landy,

OBX just left our home, and his 2001 110 is officially a 9 place vehicle with facing seat at the very back. He just told me that a friend bought a brand new 90 SW with facing seats. So, to answer your question Colonel 109, there is no matter to have facing seats in France. Any problem could come if there is no seat belts installed if the vehicle is built after 1978 (precise year to be confirmed...)

But I don't know why a vehicle registrated and homologated in England cannot travel in other countries if the green insurance paper is OK ! Except if one equipment is disturbing the national traffic (as lights per example) of the visited country.

If it can help...

Didier owns a 110 RHD which was registered as a 12 seater in the UK, helost three seats as his driving license does not allow him to carry 11 passengers.
Otherwise, it was legal.
Our friend Laurent has a French 90 which is offcially regisred as a 7 seater thanks to 4 Santana seats in the back

If you own a Series Two you definitely do not need seat belts to be installed. nowhere.

BTW my 1982 109 is registered as a lorry and also does not need seat belts, but the plates are Belgian..

Thank you all for the replies.

Landyman - mine is a 1973 LR. Was only fitted with two seatbelts when new, and still only has two belts fitted. It is registered as a 12 seater and all are fitted to the floor when new and I am allowed to drive it as such. It would NOT be used commercially so no tachograph needed then.

I would be interested to hear what your local police advise, if it is no problem for you.

Regards,

Michael

Hello Michael,

So it appears that is not especially a problem of facing seats but one concerning the number of seats.

In France the driving licence for car allows to drive 9 persons including the driver himself.

To carry 10 persons you need a bus license.

May be the problem is there ? But I don't know well enough the european rules to say anything neat on that point.

Bon jour Mikael,

Conseil National des Transport:
1 - Nombre maximal de passagers autorisés dans un véhicule léger
Le véhicule léger (voiture particulière ou camionnette) n’est réceptionné pour transporter que
le nombre de passagers correspondant au nombre de places indiqué sur la carte grise. Toute
autre utilisation ne serait pas conforme à la réception du véhicule.

Le surnombre (par rapport au nombre de places du véhicule) n’est pas clairement interdit
Force est de constater qu’actuellement, pour les adultes, aucune disposition n’interdit
expressément le surnombre. Le surnombre ne peut être poursuivi que dans trois cas :
1- Lorsque le conducteur du véhicule, titulaire de la seule catégorie B du permis de
conduire, transporte dans son véhicule léger plus de huit personnes, et entre ainsi dans le
cadre de la définition du permis D (transport en commun) du permis de conduire (article
R.221-4 du code de la route).
Du fait de cette ambiguité entre les notions de places et de personnes, le conducteur serait
passible du délit de conduite sans être titulaire de la catégorie D (article L. 221-2 du Code
de la Route, un an d’emprisonnement et 15 000 € d’amende).
NB : Une interprétation stricte de la réglementation actuelle conduirait à exiger qu’un
conducteur transportant plus de 8 enfants (qui comptent pour ½ place) devrait être
titulaire du permis D.
etc...

2 – Obligation d’équipement des véhicules
Le calendrier a été le suivant :
- 1978 : toutes les places sont équipées d’ancrages : au moins 4 places équipées de
ceintures, à 2 points (arrière) ou 3 points (avant).
etc...

with the french driving licence, type B, you can transport 8+1(yourself)

that's what I find
but you probably solve this problem and find allready a way
regards

Domik,
Many thanks for your reply and the information.
regrds,
Michael

Well, i checked the local police, but was unable to find were to place the answer, until this topic came up again recently...

So, their answer is :
to carry more than 9 people in France, you need to have a french driving licence "D" (minibus, coaches etc...)
OR an international driving licence showing you can carry the number of people you are actually carrying...

In your case, maybe a solution is to obtain from your authorities, an internationnal driving licence corresponding to the category you acquired.